SDDM (and GDM) can be a pain sometimes, so I welcome this.

The Fedora 42 Beta is looking very tempting right now…

While most people find things in windows annoying, they mostly also view using a PC altogether as a chore.

Viewed through that lense, telling them “well you can get rid of XYZ issues by investing some time in installing Linux” is like someone coming to you and saying “you can spend a few hours working on your washing machine to make it work a little faster and make the beeps less annoying”.

You’re probably not going to do it. Using a washing machine is a chore already, you don’t want to spend hours tinkering with your washing machine. You don’t want to think about washing machines at all. You just put up with any inconveniences, then go about thinking about stuff you actually care about.

Libadwaita looks pretty great 🤷

I set dark mode, choose a wallpaper, change a couple of keyboard shortcuts, and I’m done.

Man everything I hear about resolve makes me glad I don’t use it. People are always bringing up installation or packaging issues, it not properly utilising graphics cards, or instability.

They were never contacted, and they were attacked by S76. There’s no need for lies.

You can pretend these things never happened all you want, but they did, and it’s easily verifiable, and no amount of denying the facts will change that. Lying like this is indefensible.

It’s unfortunate that you’re taking this road. I think we’ll have to end this here.

I wish you and your project the best.

The link doesn’t display the exact opposite.

GNOME rejected a patch for disabling mouse acceleration profiles

We weren’t talking about mouse acceleration profiles. As I am now saying for the third time, I never said S76 didn’t try to upstream anything, or that Gnome would accept everything.

It is a fact that in that youtube-dl example, S76 fixed a bug for their own project, didn’t alert, raise a bug report, or submit a patch to upstream. It is also a fact that they then, twice, mocked upstream for not having that fix in place.

It is also a fact that that was not the only occasion of this happening.

My point has never been that S76 contributed nothing, or that upstream devs were willing to accept 100% of what S76 would send their way. I feel I made that clear.

It speaks to me that you have certain intentions and motivations in your speech to paper over the good we’ve done over the years to focus on small nit picks.

Please, let’s be civil. Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m not saying S76 are bad or evil, I’m not trying to present you or your employer in a bad light. I used PopOS, and I’ve tested Cosmic a bunch of times because it’s interesting, I even wished System76 future success. There is zero hate here.

I was explaining a few of the tension points between S76 and upstream projects that came to public attention.

Nitpicking an obscure debian changelog that no one reads and was never presented to the user is a very poor argument.

It’s not nitpicking, it was a needlessly hostile remark towards upstream. It doesn’t matter if only a small amount of end users saw it, that doesn’t mean it’s not a petty remark. And end users aren’t the only people that matter, I doubt the upstream devs appreciated being ridiculed for an issue they weren’t even made aware of.

I was unable to get any response from Canonical, so I fixed it myself in Pop

S76 never contacted canonical. No bug reports or fixes were sent their way. The first they heard of it was when S76 publicly mocked them for not having the fix.

And as I said, there’s nothing wrong with fixing it yourself. That’s good. It’s the not raising a bug report to upstream, then making snide remarks about them not fixing it that I take issue with.

Again, I want to reiterate, because you seem to think I have bad intent: I do not. I like the project. But that doesn’t mean I think everyone has always been perfect. People are people. We’re human. We make mistakes and it’s fine to acknowledge that. Me doing so about a couple of S76 employee’s actions is not an attack.

It’s not revisionist at all? There’s proof of all of this.

We have made many upstream contributions to GNOME.

I never said S76 hadn’t made any. I’m sure plenty have been made.

There has never been an instance of refusal to upstream anything.

Yes there has.

https://www.tumblr.com/system76/185276928258/system76-news-a-may-with-zing

Fixes

We’ve updated the youtube-dl package to a newer version. This package, maintained by Debian and Canonical, is used for downloading videos from YouTube. Changes made by Google to the YouTube API had recently broken this package in the Ubuntu repositories, hence the update.

Sounds good, right? Yeah, it is. Except:

– they didn’t report the bug in launchpad

– they didn’t send their patch/fix to launchpad

– they didn’t get in touch with Ubuntu/Canonical about fixing the issue

These things would’ve benefited everyone, but S76 chose not to.

But it gets worse. They did an upload in their overlay PPA with the description:

‘ * Backport to Pop!_OS because Ubuntu is too slow.’

Why needlessly shit on another project like that when you could just submit the patch to upstream, or at least file a bug report? Stabbing the back of upstream like that isn’t friendly.

There are multiple cases of conduct like this.

There has been instances of upstream not being interested in our contributions though.

Of course, but I never really brought that into doubt. I alluded to it when I said Gnome were sometimes unwilling to compromise.

But don’t take my criticism of some of System76’s actions as hate. Especially not when the bulk of it comes from one person. I used PopOS for a long while and enjoyed it, and I hope PopOS, Cosmic, and S76 in general succeeds.

It’s predominantly a thing because System76 wants full control over the software that they ship on their systems.

Something I understand completely tbh - it’s risky having the success of your business being dependent on another entity’s software. Probably even moreso when Gnome is pretty notorious for having a desktop workflow that’s very different to what you’d traditionally see, and that’s controversial, potentially even alienating to some customers. So I’d probably want that control too.

When they used Gnome, they had to compromise, and in many cases, neither of them wanted to.

Over time, things became hostile between them. And to be honest, System76 were the more hostile of the two, IMO.

One of the more bizarre things to happen was System76 identifying and resolving bugs, applying them in PopOS, choosing not to upstream them to Gnome (twattish, IMO, but that’s their right), but where it really crossed a line IMO was System76 staff going onto bugtrackers and forum threads, advertising that XYZ was fixed in PopOS, but not in Gnome, because they actually cared about users. Quite a cynical marketing strategy.

Another frustrating point was a Gnome developer liking PopOS’s tiling implementation, then contacting PopOS to see if they’d be interested in collaborating on a similar - but dumbed down - implementation to use upstream. S76 refused to work with them, and fair enough, Gnome certainly isn’t entitled to help from S76, but afterwards S76 on multiple occasions said Gnome simply didn’t want more advanced tiling or were hostile to the idea- something clearly not true since Gnome expressed an interest.

When there was design changes to Gnome 40, Jeremy Stroller of S76 became angry and said he “didn’t consent” to these changes, as if Gnome should be ran by System76, not the Gnome developers themselves.

To be honest, almost all of it comes down to Jeremy Stroller specifically. And even System76 seems to have quietly accepted that, as he has moved away from OS work to firmware work.

But I’m getting quite off topic…

When I’ve tried the PopOS alphas, it was still janky, but I’m sure it’ll be far better in future, it’s an alpha after all, and they’re undertaking a huge job. Some of it seems really cool, and I always love fresh projects that are free of legacy cruft. I’m not sure it’s for me, though.

Being worked on by a random guy outside of Mozilla. That’s cool. Hopefully Mozilla decide to upstream this.

Not that Firefox actually uses much of the GTK toolkit anyway.

Looks pretty great.

I don’t really have much reason to go onto the Gnome website, despite using Gnome (the most Gnome-related website I visit is probably Fedora’s ISO download page), so I doubt I’ll see it much, but that’s a damn slick page, whoever made it did a great job.

I’m sorry my corrections to all your many errors are bothering you.

You got a pro managing it?

\sigh

Spaces before a full stop? Really?

Last.

I know Debain 13 likely won’t come out until August or September, but with Debian 13 hoping to use Gnome 48 (which is either still in alpha or just entering beta) and Plasma 6.3… does anybody else feel like Debian is getting quicker at moving to new DE releases?

Nice. I’ve already been happy with GTK4 so far, and it looks like GTK5 is removing a lot of legacy baggage. I hope this makes things more maintable for the devs.

Doubt.

But k

I agree in the case of bugs, but this is very different, as it’s not a bug, or how extensions work.

By the time a new Gnome release reaches stable, it’s practically unheard of for an extension not to have had the patch.

You just want to be angry at some software you don’t even use. Beyond pathetic. I can’t even imagine getting myself worked up over some near-imaginary issue in some software that I don’t even use.

Nice.