This is the first step in moving to fully closed source.

Agreed. At the very least to a point where Android isn’t usable by anyone else.

I guess degooled versions are getting too popular thus a threat to google’s business.

Lol, that I doubt. I’m willing to bet that the Meta Quest alone dwarfs the install share of all custom ROMs combined, let alone Amazon’s Fire ecosystem.

No, you just can’t recognize when you’re wrong and someone is kindly trying to meet you half way anyways.

I DECLARE A MORE OPTIMIZED RUN TIiIIIIME

Ok, I see what you’re saying ,but from what I can see, if you were to scale a sciter app to the level of VSCode, it is not going to use any less resources.

Yes sciter is smaller for a simple calc app, but once you have multiple ui panes running in different threads, plus a backend server, it looks like it would scale it exactly the same resource usage as Electron.

No, because you haven’t. You’ve brought up examples that all bring their own overhead, complications, and testing issues.

Once again, at a fundamental level, if I develop an Electron app on Linux or Windows, I can generate an installer and am basically guaranteed that it will work on MacOS because the Electron rendering stack works on MacOS and I am shipping my full rendering stack alongside my app.

A WebView solution that uses the system’s WebView cannot possibly provide that.

A specifically versioned runtime like Java can potentially provide that, though if you were to expand Java to support the out of the box high level rendering of html / CSS then you’re basically turning the JRE into the size of a full browser engine anyways, especially if you were to expand it to support a pleasant and flexible language like JavaScript.

And again, you’re refusing to acknowledge that VSCode is built in Electron, and is not a resource hog, despite being possibly the most powerful Electron program most people will run, once again, showing that Electron is not that much of a resource hog, badly coded web apps are.

I fully acknowledge that Election apps use more storage and slightly more ram than equivalents written in Native Languages, but if you’re experiencing actual slow downs due to them, then it’s probably because they’re badly written.

And I reject the idea that the opportunity cost of slowing down software development is worth it. App distribution used to be over optimized for efficiency rather than resiliency.

gave React Native as an example of an alternative approach to using a browser engine for rendering. Try to work on that reading comprehension of yours.

Yeah, I’m aware. I pointed out why your example was dumb.

A lot of people do feel that it’s a resource hog because well it is a resource hog. The fact that you don’t understand that is truly incredible.

No, badly written apps are badly written, and perennially online nerds coalesce around hating the same things for validation, which in this case is Electron.

Yes, there are opportunity costs. I understand perfectly well why Electron is popular. It makes it easier to crap out something that sort of works. There’s a huge benefit to the developer and a huge cost to the user.

You keep ignoring the point that VSCode, amongst many other great apps, is written with Electron.

Youre bitching about the fact the fact that Electron lowers the barrier of entry, and confusing that for Electron being fundamentally bad.

i.e. Discord doesn’t suck because it’s written with Electron, it sucks because it’s developers / product managers never prioritized making it not suck.

Bruh, I’ve been developing web apps for over a decade now. You don’t have to introduce me to anything. The reality is that most apps aren’t that complex and if you’re using something like React, a lot of the details are already handled for you.

XD XD XD

You mean … Webpack? React handles nothing of web compatibility for you.

We’re comparing with Electron here lmfao.

I literally quoted you talking about using react Native instead. Try and remember what you wrote.

If by works great you mean hogs resources like no tomorrow and is able to bring modern hardware to its knees to render a simple crud app, then sure.

Oh yeah, that’s how everyone feels about VS Code. What a horrendous resource hog! No developer would ever use it!

/S

Again, there are opportunity costs to other frameworks. There is a reason Electron is so popular and it’s not because it’s terrible.

I mean you would just test on each platform, which you should be doing regarding of what you’re developing with.

Yes, except the platform your developing for with Electron is the browser engine you ship alongside it, so you are constantly testing it and it will always work.

With Tauri the platform your developing for is now whatever the underlying OS chooses to use to render it’s WebView. It is flat out impossible to test for every os and WebView so you have no guarantee that your application will even render once it’s installed.

And again, if you develop on a Windows or Linux machine, there is flat out no way to test on Safari without buying a Mac, but you can reliably expect your Electron app to just work.

Also worth noting that web standards are a thing, and vast majority of apps aren’t so complex that they would run into edge cases between browser engine implementations.

Lmao. Bruh, I’d like to introduce you to this little known WebView called Safari.

The vast majority of web apps will run into compatibility issues between safari, Firefox, and chrome. There is nowhere close to enough standardization for that.

However, this isn’t an inherent problem since you could build something like Tauri and package its own lean rendering engine with it. Sciter-js is an example of this approach. Other examples can be seen with React Native and Proton. The main point here is that the bloat the Electron brings to the table is wholly unjustified, and far more efficient approaches are possible.

Lol, you’ve clearly never installed a React Native app if you think there’s no bloat.

No, the point is that you want it to be unjustified but it’s not. Electron works great, is incredibly easy to setup and ship with extremely little overhead beyond storage. The opportunity cost of solutions that don’t bundle dependencies are almost never worth it.

There’s a reason the most popular IDE used by virtually every software developer these days is built using Electron.

Yes, and now you can’t test your application before shipping it because who knows what browser engine will actually run it.

You could develop it on Windows and have it completely break for every single Mac user when it executes in Safari and have literally no way of knowing or testing that ahead of time.

Because storage is cheap, so it’s not worth optimizing that heavily for, because the optimization creates a huge amount of headaches.

There’s a reason that today you can just download an app, and it just installs, runs, and uninstalls itself cleanly.

There’s no fighting with dependencies, or installing versions of libraries or frameworks before you can install an app, or having apps conflict with other apps, or having bits of app installations lying around conflicting with things.

That’s because we used to spend a lot of time and effort making sure that only a single copy of each dependency was installed on a system. If two apps both relied on the same library, one would install it, and the other would then be dependent on it as well and not install its own copy. If the original is removed you have a problem. If it thinks something else is dependent on its asset still and doesn’t remove it when it should you’ve got a problem. If they were both dependent on different major versions of a library, you could run into conflicts and compatibility issues (hello dll hell). Either the apps would have to manage all that, or the OS would, or eventually the user often would.

Now every app just bundles all its dependencies with it. It means the app comes as a clean bundle, there’s no conflicts, it can install cleanly, and there’s so much less time spend on packaging apps and debugging various system configurations.

Quite frankly this makes way more sense as a model for distributing anything. Yes it costs more in storage, but it pays off massively in resiliency and time savings for everyone.

Also, unless everything is done with vectors, high def image / video assets are not small and can very quickly add up.

No, it’s not. It’s objectively inaccurate.

A computer does not care whether the instructions it’s executing were compiled ahead of time or interpreted on the fly and they literally never have.

There is no purpose to mislabeling something and speaking inaccurately in a professional setting.

I got swirlied by an FPGA

It’s like how some infinite are greater / less than others, sure you might say that each one uniquely sucks, but spend a month trying to build something with say, Salesforce’s language, and you’ll come to appreciate how there are still tiers to it… much, much lower tiers.

Yeah, I associate Matlab with my physicist friends, my engineers friends either dont program, or already became software developers.

Oh I can use threads and recursion to stop CPU usage.

They’re joking. js doesn’t even officially stand for JavaScript due to Oracle’s IP claim over the JavaScript name.

If that was all he said, I would have no issue with that. But no, he spent 10,000 words padding that sentiment out with as much tripe and snake as he could.

Lmfao, so now Lemmy thinks that the stock market is an arbiter of value and truth?

I’m sure you really thought that one through. You seem incapable of understanding nuance or thinking through your points, so maybe sit a few conversations out and reflect on the fact that you immediately defaulted to thinking of me as a moustache twirling villain.

Look up the definition of the word cynical. It means, more or less, asserting that no one is motivated by sincere integrity. Accusing some specific people of lacking integrity, while holding up others as good examples of integrity that everyone should aspire to, is the opposite of cynicism.

Yeah, I know the definition of the word, and I meant what I said. Stop trying to think I said something else because you disagree.

He is incredibly cynical.

He thinks everyone in the tech industry is a moustache twirling villain and always ascribes malice where incompetence would do. Like I said, he’s who you listen to when you want to hear someone go on an unhinged rant about everyone being evil, not someone with an accurate view of human nature or motivations.

He doesn’t address very much the idea that DeepSeek “distilled” their model from OpenAI’s model and others specifically because that is just a rumor with very minimal evidence for it.

There is very minimal evidence for literally EVERYTHING he writes about in this article. The whole talk of them working around the GPU restrictions also has incredibly minimal evidence and is just a rumour.

Once again, his motivation is not informing you, it’s dunking in the tech industry. It’s literally his entire persona and career.

The “rumors” you say he discusses about novel ways the Chinese researchers found to outperform OpenAI are based on an extremely detailed look at their paper and their code, as interpreted by experts.

No, they’re not. He just portrays it that way because that makes the tech industry sound bad. We flat out do not know how they trained Deepseek’s model.

Once again, I don’t care that he’s mean to any tech titan, I care that he’s misinforming people because it’s the easiest path to dunking on an industry that he has a preexisting vendetta against.